My experience is similar. In the real, as opposed to the online, world, I've found that some people cannot talk about anything else. It reminds of this scene from Big Bang Theory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkIEuyEsVgY
I used to think of TDS as just an amusing meme, but I'm beginning to think it is a literal mental illness. Somehow we need to find compassion for our friends and neighbors stuck in its grip. Facts don't seem to help as you've noted. The only way out appears to be some kind of inarguable, maybe even traumatic emotional event such as living through the government's response in Western NC after the hurricane.
PS, anyone nerdy enough to know what the Mirror of Eresed is, and to quote Tolkien in his writings, would not mistake a Star Trek photo for a Star Wars meme. ;)
You have justifiably outed me as the worst proof reader in the history of proof readers. I simply cannot successfully find all of my own flubs. I originally had a Star Wars meme in that post, replaced it along the way with the one you see, and never once revisited my original references to Star Wars. I must have read through it a dozen times since swapping out the original meme. 🤦♂️
Thanks. Yes, I have had this experience too, some years back. In my case it was a fairly close university friend. She had moved away shortly after we graduated, but for many years we stayed in touch via long emails that I always looked forward to getting. Last year I read over some of our early emails and found many of them still make me laugh aloud. I saw my friend as something like an older sister, someone who could tease me in an affectionate way and with whom I could be honest and vulnerable.
But many things were changing in our lives and around us, and the year DT was first elected, my friend sent me an email that included pages and pages of anti-Trump talking points. Like you DT is not remotely the centre of my universe, never was, but I followed media enough to know there were plenty of people who didn’t agree with my friend’s arguments (if that’s what they were). But when I pointed out that maybe she was missing something, the reply was that she would tell anyone in her life who supported DT to “F$&@ off.”
I couldn’t decide if I should attempt to engage my friend’s opinions, or not. I did nothing at first, but ultimately we ended up mutually ghosting each other. This bothered me for quite a while: should I have tried to sort things out with her? What stopped me was a feeling, which you get at in your essay too, that I was no longer talking to the person I once knew.
I eventually came to the conclusion that what happened was all for the best. After witnessing some of the terrible behaviour that “woke” mobs can inflict on people, I think it’s just as well to keep a very large distance. For my part, I will occasionally indulge in a political opinion, but mostly reserve my energy for other things. I also remind myself and anyone I might share said opinion with that our opinions are mostly for our amusement (if I’ve really looked into something seriously, I might call it education).
This is cult-like behavior. "Statolatry" was a term coined by Ludwig von Mises after WW2 (according to Wikipedia, at least) to describe worship of State as a substitute for worship of God. Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is only the current strain of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statolatry.
Social media itself plays a role in this problem. I have friends on both sides who fixate on the opposition in their posts and feeds. The main difference is most (but not all) Democrats and never-Trumpers refuse to respect any my thoughts and opinions, let alone the facts and documented history.
On social media, they simply will not agree to disagree, or even be civil about it. It's very easy to unfriend and block people on social media. It's much more personal and difficult to dump a long-time, true friend face-to-face.
Agree. There could also be another additional dynamic at play here. Social media platforms, with the possible exception of X, feed on engagement. Anger and fear are powerful motivators for engagement, so the algorithm feeds us that which makes us angry and fearful. It also drives tribalism and the false belief that everyone agrees with us. Finally, it drives a cycle of vicious enforcement through threat of banishment, with every perceived infraction of the norm responded to with overwhelming (and one suspects automated) vitriol. It's not too different from 20th century systems in which neighbors were incentivized to snitch on neighbors.
Go check in on your friends over at Bluesky and you'll see it in action. This quote is from their homepage. I doubt there is a more vivid example of Orwellian doublespeak on the internet:
"Control your scroll! Use powerful moderation lists, content filters, and more to control what ends up in your timeline. In the future, people and organizations will be able to use open tools to contribute even more directly to moderation."
When I rejoined Facebook having left because of the blithering stupidity of some of my friends posts, when I rejoined I made the decision to have no friends at all and just join the groups I need for support in my hobbies. Apart from the drivel that Facebook keep pushing at me, why would I be interested in "Lesbian Basket Weavers of Maine" (OK, I made that one up, but you get my point) 🙂 it has been much better.
I am still in regular contact and meet with over a dozen friends I went to parochial grade school with. It’s common in this urban Irish Catholic environment. We occasionally mock each other for our political positions but none of that has diminished our decades long friendship since childhood and through several wars. That would indeed be foolish.
I was raised with the maxim that there are three subjects one never talks about in polite society - politics, religion and sex. I am quite sure that my intimate friends and family members know where I stand on these matters through my silence and if a conversation in a group were to turn to a divisive subject, I would simply leave the room. (A trip to the bathroom is always a good excuse.) Hence, I remain on solid, loving ground in all my relationships.
My experience is similar. In the real, as opposed to the online, world, I've found that some people cannot talk about anything else. It reminds of this scene from Big Bang Theory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkIEuyEsVgY
I used to think of TDS as just an amusing meme, but I'm beginning to think it is a literal mental illness. Somehow we need to find compassion for our friends and neighbors stuck in its grip. Facts don't seem to help as you've noted. The only way out appears to be some kind of inarguable, maybe even traumatic emotional event such as living through the government's response in Western NC after the hurricane.
PS, anyone nerdy enough to know what the Mirror of Eresed is, and to quote Tolkien in his writings, would not mistake a Star Trek photo for a Star Wars meme. ;)
You have justifiably outed me as the worst proof reader in the history of proof readers. I simply cannot successfully find all of my own flubs. I originally had a Star Wars meme in that post, replaced it along the way with the one you see, and never once revisited my original references to Star Wars. I must have read through it a dozen times since swapping out the original meme. 🤦♂️
Thanks. Yes, I have had this experience too, some years back. In my case it was a fairly close university friend. She had moved away shortly after we graduated, but for many years we stayed in touch via long emails that I always looked forward to getting. Last year I read over some of our early emails and found many of them still make me laugh aloud. I saw my friend as something like an older sister, someone who could tease me in an affectionate way and with whom I could be honest and vulnerable.
But many things were changing in our lives and around us, and the year DT was first elected, my friend sent me an email that included pages and pages of anti-Trump talking points. Like you DT is not remotely the centre of my universe, never was, but I followed media enough to know there were plenty of people who didn’t agree with my friend’s arguments (if that’s what they were). But when I pointed out that maybe she was missing something, the reply was that she would tell anyone in her life who supported DT to “F$&@ off.”
I couldn’t decide if I should attempt to engage my friend’s opinions, or not. I did nothing at first, but ultimately we ended up mutually ghosting each other. This bothered me for quite a while: should I have tried to sort things out with her? What stopped me was a feeling, which you get at in your essay too, that I was no longer talking to the person I once knew.
I eventually came to the conclusion that what happened was all for the best. After witnessing some of the terrible behaviour that “woke” mobs can inflict on people, I think it’s just as well to keep a very large distance. For my part, I will occasionally indulge in a political opinion, but mostly reserve my energy for other things. I also remind myself and anyone I might share said opinion with that our opinions are mostly for our amusement (if I’ve really looked into something seriously, I might call it education).
This is cult-like behavior. "Statolatry" was a term coined by Ludwig von Mises after WW2 (according to Wikipedia, at least) to describe worship of State as a substitute for worship of God. Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is only the current strain of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statolatry.
Outstanding treatment of it, Keith, as usual!
The cult vibe is weird but undeniable. Friends I would have never expected have been caught up in these obsessions. I'm gobsmacked.
Social media itself plays a role in this problem. I have friends on both sides who fixate on the opposition in their posts and feeds. The main difference is most (but not all) Democrats and never-Trumpers refuse to respect any my thoughts and opinions, let alone the facts and documented history.
On social media, they simply will not agree to disagree, or even be civil about it. It's very easy to unfriend and block people on social media. It's much more personal and difficult to dump a long-time, true friend face-to-face.
Agree. There could also be another additional dynamic at play here. Social media platforms, with the possible exception of X, feed on engagement. Anger and fear are powerful motivators for engagement, so the algorithm feeds us that which makes us angry and fearful. It also drives tribalism and the false belief that everyone agrees with us. Finally, it drives a cycle of vicious enforcement through threat of banishment, with every perceived infraction of the norm responded to with overwhelming (and one suspects automated) vitriol. It's not too different from 20th century systems in which neighbors were incentivized to snitch on neighbors.
Go check in on your friends over at Bluesky and you'll see it in action. This quote is from their homepage. I doubt there is a more vivid example of Orwellian doublespeak on the internet:
"Control your scroll! Use powerful moderation lists, content filters, and more to control what ends up in your timeline. In the future, people and organizations will be able to use open tools to contribute even more directly to moderation."
Me too. Very well said.
When I rejoined Facebook having left because of the blithering stupidity of some of my friends posts, when I rejoined I made the decision to have no friends at all and just join the groups I need for support in my hobbies. Apart from the drivel that Facebook keep pushing at me, why would I be interested in "Lesbian Basket Weavers of Maine" (OK, I made that one up, but you get my point) 🙂 it has been much better.
I'd recommend it.
I am still in regular contact and meet with over a dozen friends I went to parochial grade school with. It’s common in this urban Irish Catholic environment. We occasionally mock each other for our political positions but none of that has diminished our decades long friendship since childhood and through several wars. That would indeed be foolish.
It's good to have friends with whom we can have legitimate dialog.
I was raised with the maxim that there are three subjects one never talks about in polite society - politics, religion and sex. I am quite sure that my intimate friends and family members know where I stand on these matters through my silence and if a conversation in a group were to turn to a divisive subject, I would simply leave the room. (A trip to the bathroom is always a good excuse.) Hence, I remain on solid, loving ground in all my relationships.