“But are there not some things more valuable even than our own lives?”
You got right to the core of it. I’m reading this as an outsider, not being part of any church. But that was the key question for me. The sort of society that was being proposed as a way of controlling the virus was not a society I wanted for myself or my children. The notion that screen mediated interactions could in any way replace real ones is absurd, but I think we have become so used to screens that it took a while to fully realize this, and people came to the realization at different times and intensities, with their own individual justifications. Covid was an apocalypse, as in it revealed things. (Something I learned).
Keith your appellation of "church ladies" is reminiscent of Eugyppius' "Head Girls" to describe the sad state of German politics. Bang on although you might take some heat for presuming the church ladies to be of the older variety. I have some experience with this particular complaint.
You are dead on in terms of the need for some kind of reconciliation across Christendom over the covid experience. I cannot find it within myself to join a church (I quit a 30 year relation with my church over covid) because I don't trust what will happen the next time we are manipulated into lockstep obedience by a manageable and mostly benign (except to a comparative few) virus. That is my bad but my efforts to seek that reconciliation through dialogue have fallen on ears that are not only deaf but completely uncomprehending. "People were dying doncha know!"... Romans 13 you narcissistic murderer!
I pray that you have great success in getting a conversation going. Based on the quality of your prior commenters you have a good platform on which to build.
Had the same thought too. You would think that big empty churches were hardly a major risk for a few dozen worshippers, or one or two coming in to pray quietly. The Church of England wouldn't even let ministers worship in their own churches, so at one point we had the Archbishop of Canterbury zooming from his kitchen table. Even when churches were open, priests would stand alone in a sanctuary with a mask and use an antiseptic lavabo (I don't think the rubrics were amended to cover a reverential squirt and rub).
The churches' response did reveal some harsh truths, when we stopped for a moment, such as:
- a desperate desire to be liked by Government and seen to be 'responsible'
- seeing the practice of religion as a therapeutic and optional extra, nice but not essential
- a 'safety first' approach, maybe because the opposite, accepting risk, is problematically masculine
- not trusting local priests and worshippers to use their own judgement
One positive legacy however, is that the handshake of niceness has more or less disappeared or is at least optional.
Our institutions we (Evangelical-Protestants) built are no more. We can no longer outsource moral instruction to schools, militaries, scouts etc. Its time for virtue ethics in our churches and missions. The virtuous pagans knew they were worth dying for--how much more the virtuous kingdom of God.
The problem with the modern church is not 'church ladies'. The "church" had an opportunity to show up as strong in the faith that God is where we put our hope. Instead, the "faithful" folded in fear like a deck of cards. It is a fundamental issue of NOT BELIEVING GOD, or His word.
For that matter, few who label themselves Christians know the Bible at all. For instance, Genesis 14:6; "And Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness". Here lies the Gospel, in the first book of the Bible. And to put a fine point on that - Hebrews 11:6; "Without faith, it is impossible to please God". If we do not trust God, we cannot please Him. Where were the people of God on this? And lastly, to my point, Psalm 139:16; "Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book." God ordains the number of our days. WE HAVE NO CONTROL OR SAY IN IT!! (And only someone who has no idea what the Bible says would use that as a license to harm, take unnecessary risk with or abuse the Temple of the living God, their body).
I give you as a last scripture quote, this : Psalm 91
1 Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. 2 I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.”
3 Surely he will save you from the fowler’s snare and from the deadly pestilence.
4 He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
5 You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day,
6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday.
7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you.
How different would the world look today if Christians believed God's word and LIVED LIKE THEY BELIEVE IT - FEARLESSLY??? How people would flock to the faith for the sheer power of our conviction!! I lost several "Christian" friends and left my "compliant" church over this issue. Trust requires stepping out in FAITH that God's word and promises are TRUE. The church is full of tares - sown by an enemy. Matthew 16:30; "Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” The tares are going to be very surprised on "that day".
I don't disagree with any of this except to say that my characterization of "church ladies" was directed at the sensibilities of church leadership and, especially, those "media Christians" who put themselves forward as speaking for Christianity. The "faithful" who "folded" might have performed better as sheep if they had had more manly shepherds who guided their flocks toward a more courageous path. There were a few a those kinds of shepherds, to be sure. But not enough, and the noxiously craven "media Christians" were certainly not among them.
I understood. That is why it is in quotes - it is a symbol. I was disgusted with most churches from the top down....John McArthur, not my favorite, but man, what a lion! Kudos to him.
"It’s an interesting question, had they been able to access the technology we have available, whether the early Christians, sneaking around in the catacombs, would have opted for live streaming instead."
It is noteworthy that in Poland, Churches never closed during Covid, as religious observance was deemed essential. The Polish episcopate encouraged parishes to increase the number of masses, lenghten the hours of adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, hold outdoor confessions. State TV broadcast several masses every day.
Interesting. My wife heard a non-Western Christian speak at Spring Harvest (an evangelical teaching and worship event held every year around Easter in the UK for those unfamiliar) and he was asked what idols he thought the Western Church had. She was expecting the usual "drugs, 'n sex 'n rock and roll" but he replied "Safety". The Western Church worships safetyism.
I think this is partly tied to the feminising of the western church (simply following the culture) but also because we are comfortable.
I was on our Church leadership team at the time of COVID and that was the overriding concern was "safety". I wanted a more robust response to the pandemic but was outvoted. For some context my wife and I were missionaries in Pakistan and took two young children to a place where there were bullets flying up and down the street, so as I said at the time, my attitude to risk is somewhat different to others. 🤣
Anyhow enough of my ramblings, my point is that I agree with your view that the Western Church has become captured by safetyism. I could give more examples, but I don't want to bore you any further!
I wonder what Alexander Solzhenitsyn would have said about our response to CoVid?
“But are there not some things more valuable even than our own lives?”
You got right to the core of it. I’m reading this as an outsider, not being part of any church. But that was the key question for me. The sort of society that was being proposed as a way of controlling the virus was not a society I wanted for myself or my children. The notion that screen mediated interactions could in any way replace real ones is absurd, but I think we have become so used to screens that it took a while to fully realize this, and people came to the realization at different times and intensities, with their own individual justifications. Covid was an apocalypse, as in it revealed things. (Something I learned).
Keith your appellation of "church ladies" is reminiscent of Eugyppius' "Head Girls" to describe the sad state of German politics. Bang on although you might take some heat for presuming the church ladies to be of the older variety. I have some experience with this particular complaint.
You are dead on in terms of the need for some kind of reconciliation across Christendom over the covid experience. I cannot find it within myself to join a church (I quit a 30 year relation with my church over covid) because I don't trust what will happen the next time we are manipulated into lockstep obedience by a manageable and mostly benign (except to a comparative few) virus. That is my bad but my efforts to seek that reconciliation through dialogue have fallen on ears that are not only deaf but completely uncomprehending. "People were dying doncha know!"... Romans 13 you narcissistic murderer!
I pray that you have great success in getting a conversation going. Based on the quality of your prior commenters you have a good platform on which to build.
Had the same thought too. You would think that big empty churches were hardly a major risk for a few dozen worshippers, or one or two coming in to pray quietly. The Church of England wouldn't even let ministers worship in their own churches, so at one point we had the Archbishop of Canterbury zooming from his kitchen table. Even when churches were open, priests would stand alone in a sanctuary with a mask and use an antiseptic lavabo (I don't think the rubrics were amended to cover a reverential squirt and rub).
The churches' response did reveal some harsh truths, when we stopped for a moment, such as:
- a desperate desire to be liked by Government and seen to be 'responsible'
- seeing the practice of religion as a therapeutic and optional extra, nice but not essential
- a 'safety first' approach, maybe because the opposite, accepting risk, is problematically masculine
- not trusting local priests and worshippers to use their own judgement
One positive legacy however, is that the handshake of niceness has more or less disappeared or is at least optional.
Our institutions we (Evangelical-Protestants) built are no more. We can no longer outsource moral instruction to schools, militaries, scouts etc. Its time for virtue ethics in our churches and missions. The virtuous pagans knew they were worth dying for--how much more the virtuous kingdom of God.
The problem with the modern church is not 'church ladies'. The "church" had an opportunity to show up as strong in the faith that God is where we put our hope. Instead, the "faithful" folded in fear like a deck of cards. It is a fundamental issue of NOT BELIEVING GOD, or His word.
For that matter, few who label themselves Christians know the Bible at all. For instance, Genesis 14:6; "And Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness". Here lies the Gospel, in the first book of the Bible. And to put a fine point on that - Hebrews 11:6; "Without faith, it is impossible to please God". If we do not trust God, we cannot please Him. Where were the people of God on this? And lastly, to my point, Psalm 139:16; "Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book." God ordains the number of our days. WE HAVE NO CONTROL OR SAY IN IT!! (And only someone who has no idea what the Bible says would use that as a license to harm, take unnecessary risk with or abuse the Temple of the living God, their body).
I give you as a last scripture quote, this : Psalm 91
1 Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. 2 I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.”
3 Surely he will save you from the fowler’s snare and from the deadly pestilence.
4 He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
5 You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day,
6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday.
7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you.
How different would the world look today if Christians believed God's word and LIVED LIKE THEY BELIEVE IT - FEARLESSLY??? How people would flock to the faith for the sheer power of our conviction!! I lost several "Christian" friends and left my "compliant" church over this issue. Trust requires stepping out in FAITH that God's word and promises are TRUE. The church is full of tares - sown by an enemy. Matthew 16:30; "Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” The tares are going to be very surprised on "that day".
Hi Michelle -
I don't disagree with any of this except to say that my characterization of "church ladies" was directed at the sensibilities of church leadership and, especially, those "media Christians" who put themselves forward as speaking for Christianity. The "faithful" who "folded" might have performed better as sheep if they had had more manly shepherds who guided their flocks toward a more courageous path. There were a few a those kinds of shepherds, to be sure. But not enough, and the noxiously craven "media Christians" were certainly not among them.
I understood. That is why it is in quotes - it is a symbol. I was disgusted with most churches from the top down....John McArthur, not my favorite, but man, what a lion! Kudos to him.
Excellent.
"It’s an interesting question, had they been able to access the technology we have available, whether the early Christians, sneaking around in the catacombs, would have opted for live streaming instead."
It is noteworthy that in Poland, Churches never closed during Covid, as religious observance was deemed essential. The Polish episcopate encouraged parishes to increase the number of masses, lenghten the hours of adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, hold outdoor confessions. State TV broadcast several masses every day.
Interesting. My wife heard a non-Western Christian speak at Spring Harvest (an evangelical teaching and worship event held every year around Easter in the UK for those unfamiliar) and he was asked what idols he thought the Western Church had. She was expecting the usual "drugs, 'n sex 'n rock and roll" but he replied "Safety". The Western Church worships safetyism.
I think this is partly tied to the feminising of the western church (simply following the culture) but also because we are comfortable.
I was on our Church leadership team at the time of COVID and that was the overriding concern was "safety". I wanted a more robust response to the pandemic but was outvoted. For some context my wife and I were missionaries in Pakistan and took two young children to a place where there were bullets flying up and down the street, so as I said at the time, my attitude to risk is somewhat different to others. 🤣
Anyhow enough of my ramblings, my point is that I agree with your view that the Western Church has become captured by safetyism. I could give more examples, but I don't want to bore you any further!